Big Interview: Former MP Sir Andrew Bowden on Margaret Thatcher

The 83-year-old talked to Bill Gardner about the former Prime Minister’s steady sea legs and love for cheese on toast.

You knew Margaret Thatcher during her earliest days in politics. What was she like back then?

I can’t pretend that I saw her as the first woman Prime Minister - but no one did at that time.

I first met her in the 1950s because Mrs Thatcher, or Margaret Roberts as she was known then, stood in Dartford in two general elections and I stood in North Hammersmith.

I came across her a number of times. She was clearly strong and was a very interesting person.

It wasn’t exactly odd to see a woman doing what she was doing but she was certainly in a small minority.

One of the things about today’s politics is that you need to have a path, politics, philosophy and economics (PPE) at Oxford and all the rest of it.

But Mrs Thatcher had life experience, she had a real job and she fought hard. That’s part of the reason why she was such a success.

After she became an MP and then a minister, did you support her bid for leadership?

She was a fantastic secretary of state for education and made a real impact early on.

When the leadership election came up, I was the first to support her in Sussex – but a lot of others felt differently. There’s no question that there was doubt. People used to tell me: “You can’t see the Conservative party electing a female leader, can you?”

A lot of party members were saying we can’t really have a woman. They didn’t think a woman would beat him. It was the culture of the time.

One has to look at the culture of the Conservative Party. It’s a weakness and a strength in many ways.

Loyalty has always been one of our secrets to success and people felt they had to be loyal to Ted Heath.

But when he was beginning to show himself as an election loser, we had reached breaking point really and we were open to a lot of criticism.

I was told by a lot of people that I was stabbing Mr Heath in the back – but I said my first loyalty was to the party.

Soon after she became leader, she came down to visit you in Brighton. Why?

She was aware from reports that I had faced quite a lot of criticism within the local association. She dropped me a note which said “Would you like me to come and visit you in Brighton?”

Of course I couldn’t get a reply back to her quick enough.

Her agent said that we should prepare a programme, so we got down to it. We drew up a pretty hefty programme of events but we decided to put in some gaps so she could rest up for a bit.

But when we sent the programme off, she sent it back with huge red lines through it and a note saying: “Fill up the gaps!”

When she came down she was fabulous fun. She went to a ladies tea party in Rottingdean and a community centre in Whitehawk – everyone loved her.

We went out on a fishing boat, which was my wife’s idea. We all met at the Old Ship and it was a filthy day.

We walked down onto the beach and the skipper of the boat walked up. He said: “I’m so sorry, it’s a terrible day. I think it would be best if we didn’t go out today.”

But she drew herself up to her full height and said: “If you really think I’m going to chicken out, you’re wrong.”

When we got on the boat, she totally took control.

She said: “Andrew, you go to the stern. Julian, you go to the bow. I will stay in the middle holding the mast and waving to the crowds.”

The skipper was still very twitchy about the boat but luckily we had the Royal Navy on standby in case we went under.

The funny thing is that there was hardly anybody around – a few diehard supporters on the beach and a few sodden tourists on the pier wondering what the hell was going on.

But Mrs Thatcher was waving away as if it was the middle of summer and the beach was packed with people. She was marvellous.

What was she like as a Prime Minister in the early days?

Shortly after she became Prime Minister, I told her that I had an issue with a policy relating to pensioners.

She walked up to the lobby with me and after I had finished said: “Andrew, thank-you for telling me about that.”

In less than ten days I had a two page foolscap paper dealing with all the issues I had raised in detail. She was incredible really, a fantastic mind for detail.

One of the things she did quite regularly was to come into the cafeteria. She would sit down at a table and have cheese on toast with you and just talk.

This was her great strength, especially in her earlier years.

When you went to see her, it was always just her, on her own, and a pair of comfortable armchairs.

She would be curled up with her knees on the side, surrounded by boxes and papers. She was very courteous.

But you had to be very well prepared because if you said something vague or wrong she would pick you up on it.

One time I came out with a statement which was not entirely right and she was on to it like a shot. She would say: “Andrew, that’s not correct.” I thought I was in for a hundred lines.

So you were scared of her?

I wasn’t scared of her but I enormously admired her. I suppose that’s because we came through the ranks together.

Did you like her?

A lot of people liked her. She could be very personable. In later years there was a feeling that she wasn’t listening closely enough to what the backbenchers were saying.

I made it absolutely clear that I supported her.

But I think she made a few key mistakes, right at the end. She had a man running her campaign who was very nice, but not the right calibre.

I suspect he was telling her everything would be fine, when it wasn’t. That’s why she should have come back from Paris to gather support.

When was the last time you saw her?

I had tea with her about four years ago.

She was showing signs of aging, as we all do, but she knew who I was. She even remembered the fishing boat episode.

Some of the time she wasn’t totally aware of what was going on – but every now and then you’d see flashes of the old fire in her eyes.

The thing is, history moves on. You’ve got to face it, old boy, I’m a dinosaur. My generation has had its day.

Sometimes I feel that the Britain I knew has disappeared.

But I’m still sure of one thing – Margaret Thatcher was our greatest peacetime Prime Minister and she should be remembered that way.