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Junction now a 'death trap'

12:39pm Wednesday 3rd December 2008

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Drivers have accused officials of creating “deadly” conditions with a new road layout.

Motorists spoke out after the Highways Agency made alterations to the junction of the A27 and A23 at Patcham to the north of Brighton.

Patcham resident Josie Buckwell said: “I’ve tried going through there and I was really taking my life into my hands. It’s deadly. I won’t be going that way again until they do something about it.”

The layout has created a lane which allows cars to drive straight around a roundabout at the junction leading from the westbound A27 to the A23 without stopping.

The move has allowed traffic to move more freely but has created difficulty for anyone trying to pull into or out of Vale Avenue, which has a turning onto the slip-road.

The road leads into Patcham and is used as a shortcut or an alternative route into and out of Brighton when traffic is heavy.

Mrs Buckwell said: “The problem is that if you want to get to Vale Avenue you have to pull across into the left-hand lane but now it is constantly filled with fast-moving traffic. It’s an accident waiting to happen.”

The Highways Agency said it had conducted safety audits before going ahead with the alterations and would carry out two more once the project was completed.

Several other improvements are planned.

An agency spokesman said: “There’s a lot of congestion around that junction and the new design is intended to relieve traffic on the A27. We take safety seriously and look into situations.

“We sometimes find it takes people time to get used to new layouts.

We would encourage people to slow down until everybody gets used to it.”

Brighton and Hove city councillor Geoffrey Theobald, who represents Patcham, raised the issue with council officers. The council said it would approach the Highways Agency to seek a solution.

Fellow Patcham councillor Brian Pidgeon said: “It’s dangerous and needs to be changed sharpish. There’s going to be an accident soon.”

What do you think of the new layout? Tell us below.

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Brigadier Monty, Burgess Hill says...
1:03pm Wed 3 Dec 08

I feel some of the markings are unnecessary. The markings indicating where to go are useful as are the lane markings on the roundabout. Maybe it will stop people cutting you up which is very annoying!! The turn in to Patcham is more dangerous because the markings dictate you have to turn left later rather than straight after the roundabout potentially causing driver error and accidents.

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Mr Parry, Patcham says...
1:40pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Living in Patcham we already take a life in our hands with cars cutting us up on the roundabout at the top of the hill while we try to go around it to come back on ourselves, now we have approximately 50ft to try and enter a lane of moving traffic to turn into Vale Avenue.
I just baffles me peoples intelligence!
This section was bad enough without making it more difficult, they could start by changing the arrows on the other side of the roundabout in the right hand lane to right turn only then paint demarcation lines around the roundabout (as per A23 Kinston / Lewes) to stop cars cutting you up!
Who ever the bright spark who decided on this change this road junction need to look up the word improvement.

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AJ2, Sussex says...
2:00pm Wed 3 Dec 08

It has improved for the vast majority. Compare the amount of Cars that turn into Vale Road to the amount who use that junction and you will see it has been improved for the majority

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censored, Brighton says...
2:24pm Wed 3 Dec 08

My brother tore his trousers on Vale Road.

Patcham?

No, he just bought a new pair.

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NoWaySeriously, Hove says...
2:28pm Wed 3 Dec 08

AJ2 wrote:
It has improved for the vast majority. Compare the amount of Cars that turn into Vale Road to the amount who use that junction and you will see it has been improved for the majority
Agreed. But as always, the minority of whingers get their piece in the press. What about the people who benefit from something? They don't get a say... (example; Starbucks, St James Street. Many more people have benefited from this than have "suffered". But where are they? Sitting quietly, reaping the benefits, not crying to the press about it).

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Made In Sussex, Not Brighton says...
2:55pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Who ever the bright spark who decided on this change this road junction need to look up the word improvement.

Same bright spark who originally designed the lane layout/markings around the Kingston roundabout, they got changed to something more sensible after a lot of complaints

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davyboy, abingdon, oxon says...
3:12pm Wed 3 Dec 08

i haven't yet seen this junction in its 'improved' state, but will make a point of it when we are in brighton at christmas. in my experience, as some one who has held a licence for 28 yrs, people totally ignore road markings when it suits them, and then blame the same markings if they have an accident. i will be more informed when i have seen it, but i am aware of where it is.

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vickybowles, Sompting says...
3:27pm Wed 3 Dec 08

I use this route Monday to Friday, I collect a colleague for work so come off the A27 Eastbound, at the junction for Patcham, cross the A27 and now, instead of having right of way at a roundabout, that is giving way to traffic coming form the right, I now have to give way to traffic coming from my left. Then dice with the speed of the traffic as they now know they do not have to give way, and try and get into the inside lane to turn into Vale Road. Whoever planned this work should be sacked, the idea of the inside lane works well but this junction, you have got to be kidding, this is now definitely an accident waiting to happen. I have to virtually stop in the outside lane to wait for someone to give way to me. Who ever decided on this must know it wasn't going to work as they have not put up any signs telling you that they have changed the layout of this roundabout - it was a great shock last week on the first day it was open and I presumed that the traffic had to give way to me - it was a close call.
I can only assume this was thought up by a non driver!

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Moon Pig, Brighton says...
3:30pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Oh dear... I don't think the road markings are bad in themselves, it's not that much different and people still stop and give way anway at the moment lol. I can see why it was done, there's always a queue on that slip in busy times so perhaps it will ease that up a bit. I'm all for improvements if they make sense...

It's more about how people use it - ie if the people coming off the 27 west bound left a proper gap between them and drove at a sensible speed, people coming from the other direction wouldn't have a problem merging.

Unfortunately most of the idiots on the road appear to have their heads wedged too firmly up their backsides to even think about driving considerately!

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PaulOckenden, Shoreham says...
3:40pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Of course there's a fairly simple solution (although most of the posters here won't like it). And that's to stop people turning into Vale Road - make it exit only. Those going into Patcham would continue down to the Q8 roundabout, turn left, and then left again a bit further on.

In fact I'd wager money that if enough people complain about this now being dangerous, and especially if there are accidents, then the change to exit only will happen.

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leading bearer, brighton says...
4:45pm Wed 3 Dec 08

This roundabout cannot have passed any"safety audit".There is no precedent where you do not give way to the right!! Why are there no warning signs for the new road layout? The Highways Agency have "several other improvements planned."Please tell us where they intend to waste our money and put our lives in danger next!
Someone on the council allowed this scheme through on our behalf. (was it Mr Theobald?)They should be ashamed and resign.

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Arther Daley, all over the manor says...
6:06pm Wed 3 Dec 08

They should have a 'fag' break lane for Jolly Rogers bandy gang of bus men driving the Number 5 and 5a back to the gagage

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Mr. Kipling, Hove says...
6:27pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Or a burger van for the ones who don`t smoke. (there are some, believe it or not)

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bbbazcooper, Brighton says...
7:23pm Wed 3 Dec 08

It is inconceivable that any sensible person could call the change of layout to the junction of the A27 and A23 at Patcham an improvement. It clearly ignores all road traffic convention requiring, as it now does, those already on a roundabout to give way to those joining from the left. It subsequently introduces a lane change to be made within a very short distance for those travelling east and wishing to enter Vale Avenue. Both of these actions defy common sense and increase risk for all concerned whichever direction they are coming from.

Any gains for westbound traffic leaving the A27 at Patcham are marginal at best for two reasons:

1) In peak hours the inevitable queue back from the London road roundabout totally negates the purpose of the changes anyway as the queuing traffic doesn't allow people to drive through without stopping.

2) Outside peak hours the amount of traffic that either exits the A27 east bound at Patcham or comes up from the London road and then enters Patcham at Vale Avenue is relatively small so any delays to traffic exiting the A27 westbound and having to give way, as it used to do, is minimal.

Why anyone thinks this latest "improvement" is anything other than seriously dangerous is beyond me and the Highways agency need to get a grip on reality and remove the danger as soon as possible.

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tiny scouse, seaford says...
7:58pm Wed 3 Dec 08

perhaps the highways would like to take a look at the two roundabouts at southerham and beddingham ref the amount of accidents due to the speed of vehicles aprouching these roundabouts and failing to stop and going straight across the roundabout complete with the road signs atached to the front of the vehicles i think at the last count their has been 5 crashes so far two at beddingham and 3 at southerham.

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Dave At Home, Brighton says...
8:47pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Just go for it and if you have an accident, leave your car where it was hit, don't get out, ring the old bill and tell them you are hurt, assuming you are hurt and when they attend they have to record the accident to the council, 12 accidents in one year makes for a black spot which requires a change to the road layout or a speed camera. One of these is possible, the other one is ridiculous, can you work out which one?

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feline1, Brighton says...
8:49pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Ask yourselves - WHY would some nondescript minor civil servants and quango employees WANT to create a road junction that was almost guarenteed to KILL some members of the public?

Well, just LOOK AT THE STATE of some members of the public: it will soon become clear why some people, given the chance, would try and kill them!

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Arther Daley, all over the manor says...
9:04pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Dave At Home wrote:
Just go for it and if you have an accident, leave your car where it was hit, don't get out, ring the old bill and tell them you are hurt, assuming you are hurt and when they attend they have to record the accident to the council, 12 accidents in one year makes for a black spot which requires a change to the road layout or a speed camera. One of these is possible, the other one is ridiculous, can you work out which one?
Yeah, Great Idea Dave, then the Police will no doubt charge YOU (ie;the driver) with some ficticious driving offence to make up thier numbers, once it goes to court lie thru their teeth, ending up with you several hundred pounds lighter and a few points on the licence.

No wonder your stay at home Dave

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ahughes, Brighton says...
11:29pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Some 'New Road Layout' signs would have been useful earlier this week when I used the juction - no one seemed to be able to read the road at more than 5 miles an hour!!! Teh slip road to the Q8 roundabout has no become akin to a scalextric chicane with drivers from the left going right and those on rthe right going left.
If the purpose of this new road layout is to ease congestion - why have the cars coming off the A27 this week been in longer tailbacks than previously? The queues did stretch down the slip road but now they are carrying along the A27 too.

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Jozef Goj, Colo Height NSW Australia says...
12:35am Thu 4 Dec 08

Sounds like the ideal place for a Turnabout.
That's a 'Liquid Flow Traffic' intersection, it lets all users enter and exit without stopping.
With variable speeds on main arterial roads and’ Liquid Flow Traffic' Intersections, traffic jams, gridlock and congestion cannot happen
These intersections when placed into the road mosaic will allow all motorists to cross town in peak traffic, faster, safer, without stopping at a single intersection while reducing fuel costs and pollution
If any government is to invest in to the future then at least do it with infrastructure that works.
You just have to build them
I'm 'Jozef Goj' the inventor and designer of 'Liquid Flow Traffic' intersections. Search me and make up your own mind


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sussex2, shoreham says...
7:36am Thu 4 Dec 08

Stop whingeing honestly! A decent road improvement here would be to build a fly-over or a proper motorway junction, thus taking out half of Patcham. The whingers as ever rule the day and you end up with compromise..
Move to Spain where there is no standard way of building junctions, often you have to give way in the least expected places, but, people accept this don't 'force' their priority and are by and large patient. Thirty metres to change a few lanes would be considered childs play - be patient you have no right of way and get used to it!

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jah100, brighton says...
8:41am Thu 4 Dec 08

you go that way; andi:ll go that way.

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jah100, brighton says...
8:43am Thu 4 Dec 08

you go that way; andi:ll go that way.

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Made In Sussex, Not Brighton says...
9:05am Thu 4 Dec 08

Coming home westbound yesterday it has obviously started to confuse some drivers, as when exiting the slip thedriver in front stopped at the roundabout even though the lane now allows you to drive round it without giving way. As someone above rightly said not even a sign to warn drivers about the new layout, I really dont see what this sets out to achieve. the existing layout was fine as it was a familiar layout that forced drivers to give way. I'll wager iyl be less than two weeks before teh Argus is reporting the first smash here!

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Osama bin there, Brighton says...
9:56am Thu 4 Dec 08

It's a definite improvement if you are travelling westward on the a27 and wish to then travel north on the a23.

I think any problems with the junction as it is are mostly down to dozy drivers not being able to adjust to a new junction layout.

If the police wanted to get their quotas up, they ought to fine every single driver in the left hand lane who stops, even when their exit from the junction is clear. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

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steve kay, brighton says...
5:02pm Thu 4 Dec 08

The road markings are incorrect, If you are not familiar with the road lay out or which Exit is london it could be dangerous,
The arrow markings are at fault and point towards brighton or striaght on, In affect it should include a right arrow indicating the use of both lanes for london.

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Parcham Resident 1, Patcham says...
8:00pm Thu 4 Dec 08

Whether the new layout of the junction allows a quicker journey for some is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that it is now very dangerous! I have already spoken to B&H Council, who weren't really interested and directed me to Interoute who apparently are responsible for the changes. One major fault is that there are no warning signs of the change of layout - Interoute say these are on order, let's hope no-one gets killed in the meantime! Also, is this junction now a roundabout or not? What other roundabouts require you to give way to traffic entering it? The main difficulty will be for motorists exiting eastbound who want to turn in to Vale Avenue - almost impossible to cut across to the inside lane of traffic exiting westbound. Is it really an improvement? I do not think this will solve the problem of traffic stacking up to exit the A27 westbound, but will cause problems on the slip onto the A23 roundabout, and still stack up further back, especially if drivers try to swap lanes on the slip road, which is what will happen if people can not get onto Vale Ave but need to then turn left onto A23. This would cause further congestion on the Old London Road which needs traffic calming measures anyway!!

I suppose for those who want to by-pass Patcham it's not too much of a problem. I am aware of many people who will avoid this junction now, exiting at Dyke Road and coming down Mill Hill, causing further congestion - oh joy!

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Ricko, Brighton says...
8:52pm Thu 4 Dec 08

Clearly those people who think it is ak, think it is safe never use the junction or live in patcham. The exit to Vale avenue is now dangerous to turn into. In the summer Vale avenue is the only way to get into Patcham, can you imagine having to queue in the summer to get into Patcham via the Black lion turn off. I have already seen drivers break across the newly painted chevrons so that works well !. I have contacted the highways agency who have advised they are looking into it, but if you want to be safe then you had better keep clear !! I am sure all the people in Patcham village will appreciate the additonal through traffic. Well done the highways agency at taxpayer cost.

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